The War of Hawaiian Volcanic Succession

It’s a long way from writing about billionaires behaving badly for HBO to grappling with the complexities of the struggle over Mauna Kea for Kumu Kahua Theatre. But that hasn’t stopped local playwright Susan Soon He Stanton from placing herself in the ring of fire with her new play, Untitled TMT Project. —D.W.

---

A Conversation with Susan Soon He Stanton

---

Untitled TMT Project opens June 10 via digital broadcast and runs through June 27 at Kumu Kahua Theatre, which is celebrating its 50th season with this most timely epic. You may want to tune in just to see who’s playing characters such as Gov. David Ige and then-Hawai‘i Mayor Harry Kim, as well as many other real folks. But the much bigger draw, of course, is how Stanton presents what went down in 2019. It’s hard to imagine higher stakes for a Hawai‘i story.

It certainly seems as if Stanton has gone the extra mile to earn the trust of an audience that might be understandably wary—and perhaps a little weary—of the controversy. As it played out, the press became the main conduit of understanding for those not intimately involved or who knew those who were—or those who weren’t on social media. And the press didn’t do a very good job, falling back on subjective and even defamatory sound-bite moments. To do the work of defamiliarizing the subject from any preconceived notions, Stanton has woven the pith of 40 interviews that she conducted over two years into the heart of her play. And yet Untitled, she says, “will never be finished.” Instead, it bids to clarify the issues by making art of history in media res. The story will be continued.

That the playwright did all this while working around the high-pressure demands of her Emmy-winning job writing HBO’s celebrated billionaire series Succession is impressive. And yet, as an interview subject, Stanton leaves her fireworks on the stage. She’s measured yet candid, speaking freely and succinctly, and always calmly. She describes her trademark style as “sad comedies or funny dramas”—a knack which, she says, seems to have gotten her onto the HBO project. “I certainly didn’t know any billionaires,” she says.

Born in ‘Aiea, Stanton started writing for theatre at age 15 and continued at college in NYU, alternating between Island-inflected stories and more worldly subjects. Having a dozen plays and many more productions under her belt, in 2017 she was invited to join HBO’s Succession as a writer and soon became a producer of the series, which won an Emmy for writing in 2021. She has also won WGA and Peabody Awards. Although she lives part of each year in New York and London, she gets back home to ‘Aiea frequently to be with family.

---

Don Wallace

Where are you calling from?

Susan Soon He Stanton

New York. Brooklyn. I also live in London for three months of every year. But even when I’m teaching in New York I’ll sublet my apartment and be back in Hawai‘i.

Don

Teaching remotely?

Susan

Right. For me it’s about the balance between being a writer and putting in the time and also being with my family. We still live in ‘Aiea.

Don

So, putting on a play at Kumu Kahua from Brooklyn—how does that work? 

Susan

It’s all remote. Remote even if you’re in the same place, as in a Zoom production in Minneapolis where it was done live. The amazing thing, theatre finds its way. Like Jurassic Park [where the character played by Jeff Goldblum says, “Life will not be contained… Nature will find a way.”]. At MCC in New York we did an entirely prerecorded play; the director did a lot of film technique shots and spliced scenes together.

On the plus side, doing remote I got to work with artists from around the country. People in Hawai‘i are able to view theatre done around the country and internationally. There’s a nice sharing, a nice equalizer. You don’t have to be in London or New York. That’s one of the greatest plusses of this tricky time.

Don

How’s it going with Kumu Kahua?

Susan

I’m working with Harry [director Harry Wong III, artistic director of Kumu Kahua since 1997]. I think it’s our third decade. My first play I ever did was with Harry. Kind of an assistant director—holding his cup of coffee. I was 14 and it was at HTY [Hawai‘i Theatre for Youth]. And HTY put on my first play ever at Kumu Kahua. I was 15.

I’ve been on set for Succession which is all-consuming with these 5 or 6 a.m. calls. For Kumu Kahua, they rehearse at night, that’s when they begin. And that’s 12:30 at night for me. I haven’t had the stomach for the all-nighters yet. But I know I will have to do them this week. Maybe I’ll take a disco nap.

Don

You’re doing Succession in person? How does that work?

Susan

For Succession we have to wear a lot of gear. I have to get tested every day, I have to wear a new N94 mask and a face shield every day. We have air purifiers and there are only so many people allowed in an area. Normally you have eight people at a monitor and now only four are allowed. And we’re marked in zones. I’m a writer-producer so I’m in one zone. The most vulnerable group is the actors because they have to take off their masks, so we maintain even more distance and keep a face shield on when we’re talking to them.

Even so there have been some hiccoughs, a few people tested positive. It’s very expensive when that happens. My mask, I wear it 13-14 hours without taking it off. There goes the glamour.

Don

Damn. That’s as bad as a doctor or nurse.

Susan

Film production is very unglamorous. 

Don

You seem to have a love of the challenge, the thrown gauntlet. Your attitude seems to be, “What if we did this?” I mean the way take on real events and go for it. For instance, you tackle the Dominique Straus-Kahn affair [in We, the Invisibles, based on the case of a preeminent French diplomat accused of raping a New York hotel maid, an immigrant from Africa]. You take on the famous mystery of Agatha Christie’s disappearance—only you set it in Hawai‘i [Seek]. The play The Underneath sounds like the perfect local noir, where a guy goes in search of his missing brother in the underworld of Honolulu. Which I’d love to see; I know I just missed the Zoom version at Windward Community College.

Susan

I would say there’s always this point of inspiration. Sometimes it’s a real event. Sometimes it’s personal. It can draw from a number of things. I don’t think of myself as a playwright who does much with historical sources, but I love the research on history, the political side, and I do a lot of interviews. I have to feel a little nervous while it’s going on. I like to write things that are sad comedies or funny dramas.

You should have a chance to see The Underneath. I think Kumu Kuhua is going to have a day when all the Zoom plays will be available. I hope so. I think that’s a great idea.

Don

I’ve heard Hollywood actors say they do one for the studio and one for themselves. Is that how it is, sort of, for you? One for the Mainland, one for Hawai‘i?

Susan

When I first got to New York, people said, “Oh, you have to write about Hawai‘i.” And my reaction was: “I’m good enough to write about anything, not just Hawai‘i.” But as time goes by I just think Hawai‘i is one of the most rich and fascinating places out there. It’s a privilege and it’s important to write about Hawai‘i. To write plays set here. So now I think every other play is set in Hawai‘i, or every two out of three. 

Don

I was fascinated by the premise for your play, The Art of Preservation, set in the library in Kaua‘i that is being flooded. I’m a library kid, I practically lived there as a kid; maybe it’s that way for most writers. The idea resonates.

Susan

The plot is a bit of a mashup. I was thinking about the flood in Kaua‘i with Pfleuger [an earth dam on businessman James Pfleuger’s land burst, killing seven people downstream; he pled guilty to felony endangerment]. That manmade changing of the landscape, plus that time when it rained for 40 days straight. I read about a University of Hawai‘i faculty member, not a librarian but a scientist, who went to save his research and maybe endangered himself going onto the flooded campus. I was thinking: What would you risk your life to save from a library? Thinking: What would you pass on to the next generation? It reminded me of the Hawaiian tradition, where, not having a written language, the passing down of knowledge was by memory and chanting.

It’s a fun little play. Kind of my love letter to librarians who are so amazing and misunderstood.

Don

This brings us to Untitled TMT Project. This idea, not a small one, where did it come from? 

Susan

It’s really a slice of what’s been happening with Mauna Kea and TMT [Thirty Meter Telescope].

[Editor’s note: For those unfamiliar with the controversy here’s a very short, informal, incomplete summary: TMT is a project by an international consortium to build a very large new telescope on top of Mauna Kea, which already has several telescopes on what is considered a sacred mountain by Native Hawaiians, who were not included in the original discussions about their construction nor were compensated fairly for the lease of Mauna Kea lands supposedly meant for their benefit. In 2019 a mass protest was preventing construction when COVID struck. For more on the Hawaiian-Environmental connection, visit kahea.org.]

With Mauna Kea and TMT, obviously the situation will continue and was put on pause with COVID. The play is mostly set on the first two weeks. It’s framed by a hurricane, the one in the ‘60s that destroyed Hilo, after which there were all these letters about the need to build a telescope.

Kumu Kahua was commissioning a play for every decade and this one is for ours. The play touches an important issue. A lot of people have very deep feelings about it. We’re in a powerful, complicated time. The play is an ensemble but is based on a lot of research; I interviewed at least 40 people. I went there a number of times to the site and interviewed anyone who would talk to me. A number of kia‘i [the collective kanaka maoli guardians of Mauna Kea] and tourists and Native Americans and legal aid people and residents and owner of shops in different places. And a lot of friends. And Harry Kim, and somebody who voted with the land board. I contacted a number of the observatories around the world. Went to a number of observatories. I sat in on a couple hearings. One hearing was a very heated one at the Capitol.

For me, this is a play that’s still ongoing. It’s still dependent on the input and achievement of this wonderful ensemble.

Don

All the interviewing reminds me of Anna Deavere Smith’s work, though of course she works alone, channeling characters. How did you structure Untitled TMT Project?

Susan

The play follows certain protocols in terms of permission to enter space and the way the day was structured at pu‘uhonua o pu‘uhuluhulu [the summit camp created by protestors]. There, you chanted in the morning and went on with your day. The play is structured that way, too.

I don’t know if there’s a way to be successful in telling the story because there’s a hundred different angles. I did find myself thinking there are a lot of people with deeply held beliefs I agreed with that were beautiful and powerful. I tried to create a space where, regardless of how you feel, pro, against, agnostic, or don’t know much about it, I wanted to give a deeper understanding of all the politics and issues. But I didn’t want to be didactic; to tell you that you must feel this way and that way.

I think the storytelling is complicated because people have such strong feelings. It’s not about me being neutral. It’s about letting different people be heard. Making space for them. Trying to be respectful and really trying to portray some of the amazing people who were willing to talk to me.

Don

It’s not an easy task you set yourself.

Susan

I’m very scared. I hope people… I don’t necessarily feel I want to be a spokesperson for anything as much as just trying to create an empathetic space. Playwriting is the art of empathy and of creating characters.

I had a feeling people weren’t really listening to each other. There’s a quote by Malcolm X: “The conditions that our people suffer are extreme, and an extreme illness cannot be cured with moderate medicine.”

Don

I saw the call for auditions—you have Gov. Ige as a character, Harry Kim, news media. 

Susan

I wanted the actors to play a number of different characters. Someone will play a scientist, a government official, and so on. 

Don

In the call I sensed there was a space for input from your actors—that they’d be involved in shaping the play. Correct? 

Susan

There was a lot of discovery in the rehearsal process. Hula is a big part of the show. That’s something where I really deferred to our ensemble who’ve been really leading the way.

There were moments in the play I wasn’t ready to write that were placeholders that I felt were waiting for Harry and members of the cast who were more knowledgeable. Let’s have them decide what’s the best hula or mele for this moment. A lot of things were left open for the ensemble. And this is not just a talented acting ensemble, but these are people with strong views, they would put their stamp on things.

Don

The title… That is, the un-title…

Susan

I mean the play is called Untitled because it’s unfinished. And it will continue to be unfinished.

Don

How are rehearsals going?

Susan

A lot of the things happen that are deeply triggering. A large portion of the cast is Native Hawaiian. A lot of the roles have to be rehearsed every night. The actors, they’re so amazing. I was wondering if maybe this play could be done on the Mainland—and it just doesn’t seem possible. I think it would have to be a transfer.

Don

How did your feelings change as you worked on the play?

Susan

In Hawai‘i there are people who say, “Why are people so upset about a telescope?” Well, I was reading in the state archives [about the history of the telescopes on Mauna Kea], and it was really intense, intense and boring. And then I started to go back to Kaho‘olawe and those protests, the Hawaiian Renaissance. And here I was reading letters, the same letters, by some of the same government officials, saying, “We will be out by 1980.” And now you hear these same lies 30 and 40 years later. There’s a reason people don’t believe what they’re being told.

It was impressive and depressing to read these letters from the time of putting your physical body out there.

I deeply love science and I deeply love astronomy. That was part of the tangle for me. I say in the play, we all feel the same about an oil pipeline, but what they say with TMT, “Here is an incredible space for science and a zero-waste facility.” And then when they give a black hole a Hawaiian name, it’s something so clear and so special. So clean.

I can toggle back and forth. More than any play I’ve ever written it’s a collage and not an oil painting. It’s not The Laramie Project. Things in the play are reshaped and reworked, but a lot of things in it are based on things that really happened.

The most important thing is, I really don’t want to be seen as pro or anti. Not being a Native Hawaiian is part of that collective impulse. I just tried to listen, to keep my mouth shut and my eyes and ears open.

Don

Before I let you go, I am curious: how did you end up writing for Succession?

Susan

I’d been meeting with folks [in television and film] for a while. In one I met Christina Kim, a producer for HBO. We really hit it off, and she’s from Hawai‘i, too. She liked my work and sort of passed me along to other producers, including the producers of Succession. They turned out to be looking for someone who could write that sad comedy. And Jesse [Succession creator Jesse Armstrong] was amendable to hiring playwrights. It was helpful that I’d lived in New York and had done a little bit of work as a journalist and done some media. I was familiar enough with the world, although not with billionaires. We had a couple of meetings, I got the job and two months later I moved to London. In the middle of teaching! For four months. 

This is my fourth year working on Succession. I spend four months out of year in London, in New York for five months, and month or two in Hawai‘i.

Don

Is there anything special you’ve learned to love or do in London?

Susan

I really love the Thames. I walk on the shore. I like mudlarking [scavenging the mudbanks at low tide for artifacts and things people have lost over the centuries]. I’ve been told you can find old clay pipes. You can still find bits of pottery.

And I love walking over the bridges and through the city. I’m a big walker and it’s a big walking city. And I love how everyone sees theater in the city. It’s not elitist. It’s just part of the concert scene. The young people who go to a concert are the same hip young people who go to plays.

I just wish there was a culture in Hawai‘i where people went to the theater more. I wish it was cheaper and I wish it was more relevant. It makes me sad that there are not more new plays done in Hawai‘i. It’s a real shame for the actors and the audiences. But I really do feel like more playwrights are coming out of Hawai‘i now. It’s taken time. Because it’s craft. Writing is hard. It’s hard to hide behind bad writing. It takes a while to get there.

---

To watch Untitled TMT Project, you must go to KumuKahua.org and register for an electronic ticket ($10 value). Performances run Thursday, Friday & Saturday at 8 p.m. on June 10, 11, 12, 17, 18, 19, 24*, 25*, and 26* as well as Sundays at 2 p.m. on June 13, 20, 27*
(*closed captioning available)

On June 18, stay after the show for a special talk story with director Harry Wong III, playwright Susan Soon He Stanton, and the cast.

Kumu Kahua Theatre
46 Merchant Street, 808-536-4441
kumukahua.org, @kumukahua

Banner image by Ian Stauffer. Portrait courtesy of Susan Soon He Stanton.